Maps with secrets...

[Draco]

I just want to know how everyone feels about this. I hate maps with secrets. I hate them so much that I have had to stop myself from removing them from the server probably half a dozen times since the clan started. I feel that this matter should be left up to the members to decide and I stop myself from removing them.

The problem I have with them is that players come on and continually vote for them. In many cases, it would seem the players voting on them are new and they honestly feel like they can compete with the veterans. Problem is is that the veterans know the maps better in many cases and the whole map is dedicated just to trying to rule the secrets. I also feel that there is no real skill to playing these maps. It's not like you have to be stealthy and hide from your opponents. Again, all I'm looking for is a general idea how the clan feels. Please vote.

~Johnny Jones

[Ironface_NL]

Yep, its a fase in life. The newbies always vote for them. Like you said they think they stand a change against us old farts. hyst

[Mr.BOoK]

I don't care for secrets myself either.

[dh_hoxley]

i like... when all the players online know the secret places... because is a lot of more fun. when you think that you are safe knowing the secret place... but when you receive a head shot... you say... :O .

The thing is when the veterans abuse of this secret places. Thats the problem. And when you are playing with new people is sad to read the line of the deaths.

X killed Y
X killed Y again
X killer Y yes.....again
in just a seconds.

I only know a few secrets, and i think is ok... but without abuse of them.

Like Draco says.... there are cases when the purpose of being in that map is to get into the most secret place and begin to kill to everyone. thats when the game lose the sense of hunting. watching your back... search... etc.

Well that only my opinion :D anyway... with or without secret places...

I like to play here
:cool:

C ya

[hunterhos]

Secrets can go buh bye. Makes no difference to me. Would we be able to change popular maps to remove the secrets? I think that would be even better.
Unless of course it's to big a p.i.t.a.

[foxygirl]

i like... when all the players online know the secret places... because is a lot of more fun. when you think that you are safe knowing the secret place... but when you receive a head shot... you say... :O .

The thing is when the veterans abuse of this secret places. Thats the problem. And when you are playing with new people is sad to read the line of the deaths.

X killed Y
X killed Y again
X killer Y yes.....again
in just a seconds.

I only know a few secrets, and i think is ok... but without abuse of them.

Like Draco says.... there are cases when the purpose of being in that map is to get into the most secret place and begin to kill to everyone. thats when the game lose the sense of hunting. watching your back... search... etc.

Well that only my opinion :D anyway... with or without secret places...

I like to play here
:cool:

C ya
i totaly agee with him.

[BebeDoll]

I like to play them sometimes for fun, I see them as a fun challenge on occasion...but I'll admit it that I hated it when I was a newer player and didn't know the secrets.

If we kept some on one server and omitted them from the other, I would be more than happy, but, if most people hate them, I'm fine w/ them going.

To keep them from being voted over & over, could we add that mapvote feature that turns the map name red and prevents the vote for 5 maps or so?
Would that help?

[Draco]

I like to play them sometimes for fun, I see them as a fun challenge on occasion...but I'll admit it that I hated it when I was a newer player and didn't know the secrets.

If we kept some on one server and omitted them from the other, I would be more than happy, but, if most people hate them, I'm fine w/ them going.

To keep them from being voted over & over, could we add that mapvote feature that turns the map name red and prevents the vote for 5 maps or so?
Would that help?

Right now, I have it set-up to where it blocks out the last 10 maps played, but since Feb. 1st there have been over 3100 maps played. With the maps flying by so quickly, it's not unusual to see the same map played 3 times. I'm thinking of setting the server to elimination mode where you have to play like 50-75 maps before it will reload the maplist and make those maps available again. This could be a double-edged sword, though. Right now, we have so much traffic and I would hate to chase off some of those because the maps they want to play are there in the list but unaccessible until the counter hits the magic number. Have a good one.

~Johnny Jones

[Mr.BOoK]

I would hate to chase off some of those because the maps they want to play are there in the list but unaccessible until the counter hits the magic number.

~Johnny Jones

Not that my opinion should matter but I wouldn't set the map reset that high. People like to play their maps. I would either remove the secrets or at least reduce the number of maps that are loaded with secrets. However removing secrets involves time and more downloads for the users also. I think that reducing the number of maps and then letting the [Fun] members admin switch maps if maps with secrets are continually being voted in.

[Death_Dealer]

well, i have np's with them leaving at all.. as all it is, is just a slaughter feast when you get to one.. most all of us know where they are and that someone will be in it.. so, i really dont see the need for them to be on here.. besides the fact that i hate playing the same ones over and over...

[RISK]

I'm happy to have maps that don't have secrets (only coz i don't know where they are ;) ), i guess the skill of a camper sniper is to hide in plain sight, not behind a fake wall, so if maps with secrets are removed, fine by me man. It will encourage folks to hide better

[z00t]

Six of one... half a dozen of the other. The only time I mind a map with secrets is when I don't know where they are. To paraphrase a popular credit card commercial of several years ago, clan membership has its privileges: one of those perqs is being around people willing to show you the map vs. having to learn about the secrets the hard way. Yes, there are ways to discover map secrets without being shown, and from that perspective, are secrets any more of a problem than trying to figure out how to get to a building-top perch with no immediately obvious way of getting there?

At the end of the day, I lean toward not liking the secrets... They smack of unfairness unless/until all the map participants know about them. It's interesting to watch experienced players on such maps, because in general they will avoid the secrets except for spraying bullets into 'em from time to time :D.

[BebeDoll]

I was on the server a short time ago...showed the secrets in a DOU map to a bud of mine :)

[Waylin]

I generally don't like playing with maps with secrets, they really are just a distraction from good game play.

But I also don't like the idea of being completely ignorant of secrets, so that I know where they are on other servers and have a strategy against others who use them. I only know of a few, but I occasionally stumble into new ones. It's a plus to learn where they are in order to clean them out every once in a while.

[BebeDoll]

I generally don't like playing with maps with secrets, they really are just a distraction from good game play.

But I also don't like the idea of being completely ignorant of secrets, so that I know where they are on other servers and have a strategy against others who use them. I only know of a few, but I occasionally stumble into new ones. It's a plus to learn where they are in order to clean them out every once in a while.

Now that's a p.o.v. I hadn't thought of...just when I was leaning toward removing all but a few of the old classics. :D :cool: Having everyone know the secrets puts people on even ground again an takes away the unfair advantage secrets have...esp. when playing on other servers.

I do have to admit it gets old for the same maps to be played over & over...especially when you have people who think they're good snipers because they can hide behind a one way texture. :rolleyes::p

I know some of these maps have versions which have had the secrets opened. Could we possibly switch out for those? That way the maps remain, but ppl can learn the secrets also.

[Dogbreath]

Interesting opinions here. Im borderline on this topic.For me, it all depends on who is playing. I try to keep my deaths low.If there are some good players on I stay out of them and camp different spots.However, I really enjoy using them a lot when there are players who use the rifle like a chain gun running guns-blazing around hoping for some lucky shots.

[{C-oPs} KiWi]

secrets suckz ,, to me there is no skill in hidding behind a one way vew wall and shooting someone ,,, thats just the way i feel about it :)

[Renegade]

I'm with Kiwi and others who aren't in favor of the secrets...

[SiN-e]

Not that my opinion should matter but I wouldn't set the map reset that high. People like to play their maps. I would either remove the secrets or at least reduce the number of maps that are loaded with secrets. However removing secrets involves time and more downloads for the users also. I think that reducing the number of maps and then letting the [Fun] members admin switch maps if maps with secrets are continually being voted in.

I think that is a litle high I would go between 20-30 . I mean how many times can we play scareface or sand box ....... I love the small maps def. after playing a camping match that lasted the whole 20 minutes ...

[SiN-e]

Right now, I have it set-up to where it blocks out the last 10 maps played, but since Feb. 1st there have been over 3100 maps played. With the maps flying by so quickly, it's not unusual to see the same map played 3 times. I'm thinking of setting the server to elimination mode where you have to play like 50-75 maps before it will reload the maplist and make those maps available again. This could be a double-edged sword, though. Right now, we have so much traffic and I would hate to chase off some of those because the maps they want to play are there in the list but unaccessible until the counter hits the magic number. Have a good one.

~Johnny Jones

Oops wrong quote . I ment to quote Draco not you Bookypokes with stick

[Mr.BOoK]

lol .

[TungSten_X]

Hi Guys

I know I'm late with my 2 cents worth, but I really think that maps with secrets SUCK, big time.

What's the point when someone can get into some hidey hole and shoot without being detected? Does this show stealth? Does it show that the person can look at the map and pick a good spot to shoot from?

Get rid of the damned things!

LOL

TungSten_X

[[OMFG]itsTripp]

Put some of my maps on server, and that will stop the problem.

Just a suggestion.

[ripper]

bye bye secrets lets play like we have to play fragnation

[DOOM]

I Agree With Death Dealer I Hate Playing The Same Map Over And Over And I Also Like Mr Books Idea But I Wouldnt Do It Unless Everone Keep On And On With The Same Map For Example Scareface Tonight I Played That Map Over 25 Times I Hated It But I Played Lol

[Ironface_NL]

I noticed that when people are on TS, they can force a vote to a map they want. Like yesterday when Doom, Sinfive and me were on TS. I like to play new maps anyway and sometimes there are secrets in that map, but you can't know them all. hyst hyst

[Old Man]

I know verry few secrets. Sometimes it can piss you off when you know someone is in a secret but can't find them yet when i do find one i like trying to get someone out of it haha. I am slow to learn maps so I die a lot but like it when i find one. Now after all of that I can live with or without is ok but is nice not to play same mape 2 or 3 times a night accept for the maps I like:D

[SiN-e]

When on TS I always ask .. what has been played ? And what do you want to play . Usually there is enough of us on TS that we can have enough people vote new maps ...

[[FuN]Bl17zZ]

I hate secrets in a map that involve the following:

-Image dropping from a teleporter.
-one way textures.
- way up in the sky meaning you are virtually out of the game

it takes no skill at all to sit behind that texture or image drop or way up and just shoot everyone without them ever knowing where its from.
Dont get me wrong its not that i dont know the textures, i found out ages ago that opening maps up with UT_editor shows you a/z about maps but i just dont like them. They P*ss me off.

I am willing to make time and take maps that we like but with and leave them but take out the one way textures or the image drop teleporters. No problem its a piece of cake and the maps can stay on here.

[J0K3R]

Yes, secrets suck.

New players who haven't joined a clan are at an unfair advantage because nobody shared the secrets with them.

Same goes for changing the driver to see better, Down arrow to throw the frisbee further, Didn't know what image dropping was, etc.

I still suck. Only now I suck in an informed manner.

[PYRO]

hmmm here we go again a bunch of whinners thread thats taken up to much space , nothing informitive just whinning , we have all been here , when first learning the game. maps with secrets make you learn the map so you dont get killled and help you remmeber were everything is faster than a map with no secrets, hmm i wonder what you all would have whinned about when the game first came out and had to play on a modem and had no teramspeak and just the maps that came with the game .wow there would be no room on the forum to post lol , YOU GUYS SHOULD APPRECIATE ANY MAP THAT APERSON MADE WITH SECRETS OR NO SECRETS , BOTH STYLES OF MAPS HAVE THERE ADVANTAGES FOR EVERYONE .EVERYONE SHOULD LEARN THE GAME , NOT JUST PLAY IT AND EXPECT TO LEARN IT IN A MATTER OF SECONDS .
I know everyone does or doesnt like certain maps why not just learn the map and chaulk it up to learning thats point to the game not be bored and thats why we play to keep us from being bored , i remmber when the first maps with secrets came out m it was the map to have ,and now people whinne about it , i know the game is evolving but just remmeber that weither th map has secrets or not the people who made it put hours and hours into the map so the game could evolve to what it is today .IT seems to me that people are forgetting what has made the game and takeing it for GRANTED! IF YOU CANT PLAY THE GAME WITH SECRETS OR WITHOUT , WELL TO BAD FOR YOU MAYBE TRY A SIM OR SOME BOREING GAME .[ban_me]

[Dogbreath]

haha 5 star post pyro. when I start playing again i must remember to camp out all the secret spots just to piss people off

[Draco]

Pyro, you fucker!!!! THREAD LOCKED!!!!!




























































Just kidding again! hysthysthysthyst

~Johnny Jones

[Draco]

I know where all the secrets are. Now, I just force myself to get through the map by flushing everyone else out of the secrets and trying my best to keep them out. It means a high death count at times but it also means a ton of fun and sometimes the win. fingerfingerfinger :D:D:D

~Johnny Jones

[PYRO]

well we all should rember if you dont know a map and played its cached and you can also go offline and practice it a couple off times which it should only take to learn a map ,even better enter the consul and type god orfly mode to get around better and get in the spots you normally cant ,[ban_me]


HMMMM THE SIMPLEST THINGS IN LIFE CAN BE SO HARD [ban_me]

[Neoandrew1]

You can practise them offline? wow I did not know that!

Can a higher being tell this poor minion how to do this please :D because there are quite a fiew maps I really need practice on LOL

back on topic: I remember when I first started playing online and all the secrets spots made me do is work hard to find out where the person was who was killing me all the time lol

[Draco]

Download and install this: http://redirect.pet-passion.net/FUNdownloads/utillities/utcache3.zip Once installed, open it and click the run button. When it's finished, you should be able to start the game up and start a practice and all those maps should be available for you to select. If you haven't played in a month, though, there won't be any maps on your system to convert because cache only last 30 days. I'd say run the program every week and it'll prevent you from having to download anything twice. Have a good one.

~Johnny Jones

[FRAG_MASTER]

i personaly like maps with secrets... its funny to have a noob vs veteran and have a 40-0 game... lol

[shadow_knight]

i dont play hear alot but we have target identifyers on our server so when you look around if you run accross a secret if anyone is in there there name pops up makes it alot harder to hide in one that way just a thought

[Draco]

i dont play hear alot but we have target identifyers on our server so when you look around if you run accross a secret if anyone is in there there name pops up makes it alot harder to hide in one that way just a thought

I built in a less obvious form of the long-range identifier into the gun. You have to be zoomed all the way into a secret but it will tell you who is hiding in there. Works pretty good, too. I've been accused of cheating for picking people out of secrets with it. Just zoom in and wait for their name to appear on the screen and hit fire. hysthysthyst:D:D:D

~Johnny Jones

[Badmotor]

Lmao! I just get accused of cheating.

[Ironface_NL]

Darn, noone tells me anything here. I DIDNT KNOW THAT ABOUT THE GUN DRACO'hyst hyst hyst. Now I know why I get picked out by you guys. Old leadbut out hyst hyst

[Monstrlama]

I noticed that about the gun. Ironface don't use the zoom that's why he didn't know about it. He's got like a 48 inch plasma TV he uses a monitor. LOL!

It dosen't matter to me either way. I've played with and without them.
I don't really use them I guess.

[SgtHetfield]

Secrets make it interesting I suppose, but one way textures are a bind, and I especially hate some modified maps where you can't touch people and all they do is fire redeemers at you - BORING.

The comment about hitting down arrow with the transponder - ? Is that like the actual down arrow on the keyboard or the key defined for backwards?

Gun with ID on zoom. Useful, but I prefer to be able to spot and take out people without it. If I think there is someone in a secret I shoot in it - I don't care what their name is? - Though it is nice to know the name of the victim, and in the case of most Clanners on here - you all dress like girls!

There are loads of maps on the servers, and yes we have preferences. There are a hell of a lot I have never seen or played on before as well.

Getting back to the topic. Maps with secrets - if you removed the ones with one way textures that would be a start. There are some maps where secrets don't really have a benefit - e.g. Frankensteins Lab, and others where there is a clear advantage to the player that knows where and how to get to them.

It is a double edged sword. On the one hand it is interesting and useful to find the secrets, the reward is you then have a spot you can use to your advantage, however in so doing, it pisses off new players and takes the skill element out of it (not forgetting the fact it might be difficult to get to the spot in the first place though). On Freestyle as well as being killed for being too slow, I'm usually being battered by someone hiding in a secret - the problem here is I'm not usually alive long enough to work out where from. For new or visiting players this is disheartening. Camping there is the skill of finding a spot and being able to snipe and not get spotted. Having a one way texture isn't really sporting.

Fragged Nation are played on normal maps. There are variants of maps, and due to a lack of knowledge I may have played on maps that have secrets but because I don't know about them to me they are normal (that's because they are secret - yeah yeah I know).

If we were to remove all maps with secrets (the blatant ones), how many maps would be left?

My vote would be not to have secrets, just need to define what we mean by secrets.

[Castar]

i totaly agee with him.

I totally agree with her agreeing with him...........

[Draco]

I totally agree with her agreeing with him...........

Cool... BTW, foxygirl was a confused little boy from Lubbock who tried to make everyone think he was a female. hysthysthysthysthyst

~Johnny Jones

[Ziggy]

Big maps with secrets in freestyle (bar, kitchen) on a public server, is about which decent player can shoot the most noobs fastest. (This is what makes it fun sometimes though).

Medium sized maps with secrets in freestyle, specifically in team games/matches is where the entire skill of teamwork in freestyle exists.

I suggest leaving them on, because they are classic, well built maps.. you will notice a huge decrease in traffic to your server if you remove them I think.. Not cause noobs like them, but because the pros remember them, and regardless of whether there's skill shooting the respawners 100x in a row, it's fun.. at this point in the game, you having one of the last active server, I doubt it worth it to lose the players there because of a couple maps..

I know I for one fit in the group of players who only connects to your server if it has a map with "punky" in the name, or at least "ASC". Not for the lack of fun on your server, just cause these are the only maps I can play and smile during :P The rest are boring imo.. remember, maps are generally overplayed because they are well liked, and maps are generally underplayed cause they are not liked.. increasing the time on your map vote between when you can vote the map on again will just make more leave when they have to play a boring map.




TL : DR - Dur secrets be fun, don't kill them!!!1111one

[Blood]

..........they are classic, well built maps.. you will notice a huge decrease in traffic to your server if you remove them I think.. Not cause noobs like them, but because the pros remember them, and regardless of whether there's skill shooting the respawners 100x in a row, it's fun.. at this point in the game, you having one of the last active server, I doubt it worth it to lose the players there because of a couple maps..

........ remember, maps are generally overplayed because they are well liked, and maps are generally underplayed cause they are not liked.. increasing the time on your map vote between when you can vote the map on again will just make more leave when they have to play a boring map.

I agree 100%..............

[Draco]

This thread is over a year old. At the time, it was decided that deemers were to be put back in so that they could be used to flush out the secrets in the public server. I think we had 3 people show up, whine, and say they were never coming back if we left deemers on. Three weeks later, they were back. hysthysthysthyst

~Johnny Jones

[TheCatt]

Hello all, surprised to see this tread revitalised.....
I for one, enjoy the maps with secrets......not for hiding in (well sometimes maybe) but more for seeking out and killing the players who use them.

I find it great fun and a challenge to kill a player who thinks he is safe behind a one way wall....and lets face it, and I am definitely here for the FUN.......:p
TheCatt

[Ziggy]

Bah, I got fooled by a necrothread.

The wierd thing is, I checked the date and still replied... failfailfailfailfail